Shouting it from the rooftops

Ben, Chicago — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:42:42 GMT

About the story of no photos allowed in public places and photographing police, this is the trend, and people better get used to it barring a major change in our thinking and actions regarding personal liberty. The government will be allowed to peer into any aspect of your life without a reason, but citizens' ability to gather info on the government (or gather info on anything, i.e. take pictures in public) will be severely restricted. From what I know about how our country was founded, this is the exact opposite of what the founding fathers meant. But what do I know, maybe I have my tin foil hat on too tight.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Eric, Madison WI — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:51:33 GMT

Dear Sir/Madam/Wg Cdr/The Very Rev/Air Vice Marshal/Senator/Alhaji/Crown Prince:
Thank you for applying for the Human Pollution Filter position we have posted via Second Life.

Hilarious...

Shouting it from the rooftops

Steve, Springfield, Ill. — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:58:18 GMT

Will, I love your column, but that's an unnecessarily vicious swipe you took at doctors refusing to go against their own moral or religious beliefs. Just because you think the ethical codes involved are "mythology" doesn't make it so -- nor does it make this issue any less complicated.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Dennis McClain-Furmanski, Dalworthington Gardens, TX — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:55:26 GMT

re: Most Hated Web Words Long before the web, there was Usenet. Think of it as Web 0.0, where everyone who felt the urge contributed to one of 10,000+ blogs. It still exists, though not with the popularity of years past. Thanks to Google having purchased the historical backups from predecessors such as Deja Vu, and developing their Google Groups Advanced Search, we can examine the entire history of text based public human interaction. Coming in at some unknown ranking, but with about 1.16 million hits, is the word "ilk". One never hears this in verbal discourse, yet in print people seem to be unable to prevent themselves from waxing pedantic and using this word. Worse, rather than simply using it as it was intended, meaning "a kind of person", they inevitably use it with an implied but obvious negative connotation. If I, rather that Google, owned the Usenet records, I wouldn't simply make them available. I'd use it as a source to publically humiliate anyone who used this word in this way. And that, after all, is a large part of what Usenet was used for. And here you youngsters probably thought you had the patent on that, what with blogs and social networking and many of the other most hated words.

Shouting it from the rooftops

JE, Detroit — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:11:32 GMT

That story about the "miracle diet pill" side effect is kinda similar to the fad (past fad? Still ongoing fad?) of ingesting massive amounts of laxatives in order to lose weight. Really not much different, considering the side effects.

Shouting it from the rooftops

JE, Detroit — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:16:30 GMT

BTW, this statement--"Is there some kind of quiz or something we're supposed to give our doctors to find out before-hand if they're going to hang us out to try because their particular brand of mythology tells them to?" is worded PERFECTLY! (Well, except for the little typo when you wrote try instead of dry). You're sure to get a lot of lambasting from believers of the current mythology for using those words, but you're absolutely correct!

Shouting it from the rooftops

Chris M, Phoenix AZ — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:09:57 GMT

re: trucks in the driveway, color of house. Those rules are a protection on an investment, and every homeowner agrees to them. Buying a house is the biggest investment most Americans will ever make, and it only takes a few bad neighbors with ou of control weeds, broken down old cars and piles of trash to lower the property value, and in turn the resale value.

Very different from taking pictures on the sidewalk.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Michel Meador — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:29:47 GMT

Steve, thanks for posting the exact comment I would have made if you hadn't. I was very surprised (and disappointed) that Will would make such a comment. Mythology? Good grief.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Sean, NY — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:37:31 GMT

I don't know how to feel about the cyclist and the cop story. If (big if) the cops did what he claims they should be pretty severely disciplined, but I can't shake the feeling the guy is one of those people almost anyone would want to taze. Not to mention the cop was ultimately right, the road WAS off limits... what was he supposed to do, drive back uproot the sign and deliver it to the cyclist?

Shouting it from the rooftops

Steve, Fordyce, AR — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:05:35 GMT

In a perfect world, authority figures would never abuse their authority or overstep their bounds. Unfortunately, policemen are human beings. It's hard to imagine anyone not getting fed up with the smarmy, self righteous BS that was undoubtedly being spewed by the cycle rider. Finally, when told to drop to his knees, to comment "that's absurd" and begin to pedal away invites the treatment he ultimately suffered.

Did the policeman overreact? Quite possibly. Did the cyclist bring his treatment upon himself? Definitely. I'm afraid he may be in for a rude awakening if he elects to take his friends' advice and bring suit. There may be a majority of jurors in his case just like me. He'll be sadly out of luck.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Will Femia — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:09:25 GMT

Steve and Mike, that's easy for you to say when you share the beliefs of the doctor in the story, but the point is that you have a certain expectation of care when you go to a doctor. You expect he's going to treat you according to the science of medicine. If he's not (or she's not) then there ought to be a way to know. Maybe doctors should advertise themselves as Christian doctors or Muslim doctors or Scientologist doctors. If they don't, I don't want to go through a whole round of diagnosis only to have the doctor not tell me what's going to cure me but instead tell me what's going to keep with square with his god.

Obviously a doctor works within some guidelines. You're not allowed to go kill someone and harvest their kidney just because you need a kidney. But that's different from a doctor not offering a kidney transplant as an option because he doesn't believe transplants are sanctioned by God.

I don't even mind applying religious beliefs on top of regular medicine. If you want to add prayer or ceremonies or whatever, that's great. There's all kinds of proof of the power of the mind over our well-being, so it makes sense to apply medicine in a comfortable psychological context.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Will Femia — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:14:44 GMT

Chris, I don't disagree with you. In fact, most of these privatizing situations are about protecting a certain quality of life or property value. I'm sure there's even a keeping-out-the-riff-raff justification for banning photography in some cases. But it's a funny admission that freedom isn't all it's cracked up to be when it means having a jerky neighbor with a messy yard or a shopping area full of obnoxious kids.

Shouting it from the rooftops

LV — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:45:26 GMT

I don't think Will's "mythology" comment was a "vicious swipe" at anybody. These "moral" decisions on the part of practitioners can be life-threatening to affected patients, and a "myth" is simply an unproven belief in something. I'm perfectly fine with my religion being called mythology - the point of faith is that you believe without proof. And those doctors are being ridiculous to even practice a specialty that has a medical standard of care they aren't comfortable with. Lawyers are taught that if they can't handle the idea of protecting Constitutional rights above the idea of defending a guilty person, then they shouldn't become criminal defense lawyers. It's the same concept across all professions - if your conscience prevents you from being able to practice according to the accepted standards of a given profession, you should not be a part of that profession.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Rob, Philly — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:59:35 GMT

So the ancient Greek religion, or Roman, they were mythologies, even though they were believed fervently by their followers, but modern day religions are not? Please, get over yourselves.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Bill, Miami, FL — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:28:57 GMT

In the business of law enforcement persons confronting a cop are usually guilty of POPO (pissing off a police officer). A common phrase used in police reports in these situations is "Defendant did fall..."

Shouting it from the rooftops

MrBubble — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:42:32 GMT

I respectfully disagree with you on the cyclist story. The thing that got my goat the most was that the older cop got the trainee to tase the bike guy. He must be familiar with the Milgram experiment! Cops need to be taken to task for these incidents and then fined personally. We must resist the current wave of authoratarianism on all fronts.

On the other handm, your use of mythology is so appropriate. Glad to see that you can differentiate religious codes from ethical codes unlike other commenters. I wonder if Pastafarian doctors are in my HMO?

Shouting it from the rooftops

BC, Fairfax, VA — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:58:13 GMT

"I'm inclined to agree with the Obama people here." That's probably because you agree to some extent with the political leanings of the Obama campaign. Otherwise I bet you wouldn't agree. My guess is that Obama is trying to prevent a "macaca" moment during an event with members of his base. That means the Obama campaign is uncomfortable with the freedom and spontaneity of the Web 2.0 world.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Will Femia — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:50:26 GMT

BC, you're my favorite troll. The idea that I have to agree with Obama on anything in order to agree that bloggers are the same as the press doesn't even warrant a response. I do like the point of your last sentence, maybe because, as I mentioned in this entry, we spent so much time evaluating whether total transparency was a good idea for TV production.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Viv — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:10:44 GMT

About these doctors refusing to do things because of their "mythologies" - I'm 46, single, diabetic w/ "female problems" whose doctors won't help me take care of the problem because they insist on "preserving my fertility" - so what if I'm in pain, they're making sure I can have children! Hey, docs, if I'm 46 and still haven't had kids - news flash - I AIN'T GONNA!!

Shouting it from the rooftops

Don Tuite, California — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:55:05 GMT

I sense an insurance company, more than a Holy Book, is behind Viv's docs' interest in "preserving her fertility." But that opens up a question. in pursuing a lawsuit, may a lawyer invoke a community's Holy Book while attempting to sway a jury?

Shouting it from the rooftops

John — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:15:49 GMT

I agree with you Will about the doctors. However, it goes beyond moral beliefs. I just read where a poll of doctors revealed that somewhere near 75% of them said that they would not tell a man that he was not the father of his children if they discovered the "paternal discrepancy". Although typically not as urgent as a trip to the ER, that is a form of sub-standard treatment since it can affect future treatment of the child and could even affect a child's decision about having children themselves.

I couldn't find the article I read, but here is a Men's Health article that deals with the subject of PD:

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=guy.wisdom&category=family.guy&conitem=8a37302052421110VgnVCM10000013281eac____&cm_mmc=Mag_URL-_-2007_April-_-Are_You_Raising_Another_Mans_Child

Shouting it from the rooftops

Rob, Port Royal, SC — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:31:54 GMT

Ok, I'm going to weigh in on this. As far as I'm concerned, Will, you have thumbed you nose at believers by your "mythology" comment. You're entitled to do that, but you now seem to be putting yourself in the, self-righteous, emboldened, in-your-face, Hitchens/Harris/Dawkins camp. This definitely puts an ideological spin on you column that I otherwise perceived as making interesting observations on trends in cyberspace. I also think your comment is wrong. It is possible that some doctors may be opposed to abortion for ethical rather than religious reasons.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Russell in Maryland — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:53:17 GMT

Do you think Chris Matthews was referring to having Ann Coulter on the show?

Shouting it from the rooftops

viv — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:29:14 GMT

actually the insurance company had already approved it - it was the doctor who refused to follow through

Shouting it from the rooftops

Chad B, San Marcos, Texas — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:43:57 GMT

"Is there some kind of quiz or something we're supposed to give our doctors to find out before-hand if they're going to hang us out to dry because their particular brand of mythology tells them to?"

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Chuck — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:01:10 GMT

While I agree with the overall point you were trying to make, I also have to wonder about your use of the word "mythology." I guess it could be seen as less inflammatory since you include moral and ethical ideas and don't only mention religious beliefs, but I find it hard to believe an experienced writer and blogger like yourself didn't see the firestorm coming when you wrote that. Considering you could have just as easily made your point using words like "credo", it strikes me as a deliberate attempt to get some people riled up, for whatever reason you might have had.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Summer, Seattle, WA — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:20:24 GMT

I would point out that some prominent Christians (J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis) viewed all religions as mythologies, however they believed that the Christian religion was the "one, true, mythology" and that all other mythologies that mirrored the Christian one were incomplete versions of the true religion. So, mythology was a very appropriate term to use there and should not be seen as an insult.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Hoosier fatty — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:42:20 GMT

Re the latest diet pill: if it is used correctly (no more than 15 grams of fat per meal), the side effects are very minor. The only people with real issues with it are the ones who try to eat anything they want. The diet itself would be effective without the pills; they just give you an extra insentive to limit your fat intake.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Sean, Torrington CT — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:42:43 GMT

Viv, slap that doc in the face and go find another one!

How fucking dare they tell you that!? Oh man, I'm freakin' furious and I don't even know you.

If you can't see another doc due to travel times and insurance restrictions, tell them you don't care about fertility. If they still won't do what you like, get a lawyer.

Shouting it from the rooftops

KW — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:08:55 GMT

Will,
I would agree with your comment on doctors, but I would not limit it to religion. Another posting referred to the "current mythology" which I would hope includes political correctness. A significant number of doctors are quite arrogant (and to some minor extent it's their privilege as most of the people they deal with every day are inept by comparison). From my limited dealings with them I have found that, when present, this arrogance manifests itself with whatever other beliefs they may have, be they religious, political, etc. Their a lot like computer geeks in this way, only that women find them sexier for some reason...;)

Shouting it from the rooftops

WDRussell, East Liverpool, Ohio — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:58:00 GMT

Ben, in the first post. You are not supposed to think for youself, that shows you do not support the government.
And I applaud you for it.
Please check you brain at the door.

Shouting it from the rooftops

Ben, Chicago — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:01:21 GMT

WDRussell - thanks.

:D~
(that's me grinning and drooling after having left my brain at the door. Someone else typed this for me.)

Shouting it from the rooftops

Randall K, St. Louis, MO — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 02:17:08 GMT

Just got back from Vacation, and of course the first thing I do is check in on Clicked... looks like I missed a good one.

And BTW, When did you go BLOG-MA? Or did the profanity in Sean's post slip by somehow?